image
Utilities - Regulated Electric - NYSE - BR
$ 7.07
1.58 %
$ 14.5 B
Market Cap
9.3
P/E
EARNINGS CALL TRANSCRIPT
EARNINGS CALL TRANSCRIPT 2017 - Q2
image
Executives

Wilson Ferreira Jr. - CEO.

Analysts

Carolina Carneiro - Santander.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome, and thank you for waiting. Welcome to the teleconference of Eletrobras, to talk about the results regarding the Second Quarter of 2017. We inform you that all participants will be hearing the presentation. Next we will start a Q&A session.

We remind you that this presentation is available in PowerPoint at the website of Eletrobras, Investor Relations.

Before we continue, anything that will be said during this teleconference regarding the business perspectives of the company projections and financial goals are premises of the Board of Directors of Electrobras, based on information that is available to the company. Considerations, thoughts about the future do not assure the performance.

The investors must understand that economical issues and operational issues may influence into results of the future. Now, I would like to give the word to Mr. Wilson Ferreira Junior. Mr.

Wilson?.

Wilson Ferreira Jr.

3,700 megawatts. We have the capacity to conclude other works and we continue to work. The relevance is here. The intelligence is to sell assets, grow the assets, then maintain the interest of the market and conclude the investments that we have to do today. Page 33 is the set of works that have been concluded in Chesf.

The company that we were feeling the most delays. Here the importance is, we mentioned the last one, that all of the wind farms and solar power farms, the concluded works on them are connected. There is no more assets that had been concluded that are not connected to the network. We have transmission lines and everything is connected. A summary. Page 35.

About the investments of the company, we can highlight in terms of investment. A low value, we are aligned with our moment of cash flow, BRL2.4 billion. The main investments are connected to the fulfillment of the compromises with generation and transmission. These investments done, they account for over BRL1 billion.

There is the corporate expansion and here, distribution connected with the distributing companies. And to conclude, we have over 2,000 megawatts in Belo Monte. We will add over 1,300 as well. We've just concluded the works of Mauá 3. We have done it internally with our own capital. We've closed the cycle between October and November.

And we've had here the Phase B, we have 270 megawatts. We will have this phase closed by the end of this year. Performance is very low and this is it. 61 kilometers of lines for Chesf is concluded in this semester and as well as, I've just mentioned, the wind and solar power that has been connected generation to transmission.

Now we have had a meeting with important elements of Eletrobras, which are, at the beginning, I was talking about the entrance of RBSE, 87.4 of the predicted revenue. We started to receive that due to other issues. So the new framework addresses consumers and revenues and the operators. But we are maximizing the costs.

Secondly, relating to the legal issues. All of the assets that have volumes and they didn't have an adequate proposal when we did the repatriation of the risks. So here we have a total for that as well.

And we want to add the logic, the mechanics of how this is involved, and we have energy and this allows us to have the public asset being able to be sold to the private sector. All of the effort of Eletrobras is to increase the provision for the operational costs. We have a limit but I want to offer you a perspective.

That's why it is important to Eletrobras. We need to have a more clear definition of what is privatization and not, and corporate revenues per rata, financing contingencies. This is not clear and has to be cleared. These three highlights are fundamental for Eletrobras. Clearly, there is a favoring of this new framework for the company.

But it's go beyond -- it goes beyond that. First, I think that there is a process that has a cadence to be performed, the privatization, three months, four months. It will not take place in the next couple of months. It will take 10 years. And this has to be clear. The distributing companies have an action.

And they have nothing to gain if they accept, but they have a lot to lose if they do not accept. So we need to do a separation of the energy and the planning, the actions. We need to have -- I will show you later.

And we understand that this new mark -- framework offers for conditions to unlock the model and align it to what we have in the world, the most modern. We have a better allocation of costs between the agents and allocates the risk better between the agents. It rationalizes subsidiaries and these are part of the problem for the legal issues.

To give an example, we have to manage these issues, and well. Everything that we are talking about, this is a way to be -- judicialize the system, which is important for us. So we can have liquidity in the functioning of the system. The last page, here.

What is explained here? We tried to do an evaluation of Brazil first, and the second, the entailment of Eletrobras. And the first, how many power plants do we have in Brazil? 91. What is the sum in terms of power? 29,000 megawatts of power in Brazil. So we have 1/5 of the installed capacity in Brazil, 150,000.

And these power plants practically has our Eletrobras, 14,000 megawatts installed in Itaipu. We have 14 power plants. In the top, we see results about what we feel about Eletrobras. Here, you can understand a little bit of the importance of the proposal. How much does it cost to operate all this? Costs BRL529 million.

Here, if we remember, below, there is no ideological risk. And now we see what was not that -- not clear, how much is the cost of the ideological risk? Better than looking at the costs first. Second, we can see this cost paid by the consumer, the O&M goes to the power plants, BRL529 million and the average value of BRL61 per megawatt hour.

This is the average. Looking down below, the quotas of Eletrobras have a lower price because throughout time, we were recognizing additions. And when we did an extraordinary review, we also have it in Eletrobras. But we have a value of BRL35 per megawatt hour for this set of power plants. And the system today has BRL61 per megawatt per hour.

Down below, we have the payment of the tariffs. This costs BRL1 billion a month for Brazil and it has BRL115 of megawatt hour. So you can see that the energy of these power plants, it doesn't cost us BRL60. It cost over BRL100. In the case of the power plants of Eletrobras, it's a bit cheaper.

Instead of costing BRL 35, there's the additional cost of BRL 70. Our costs are therefore BRL133. Here, the problem is not more or less the quota have a cost the lower cost but a demand or a collateral effect that is basically the double of the cost. There is no reason why they shouldn’t be managed they are paid by the consumer.

So, if somebody that will purchase this power plant and will be able to operate it with a lower cost and will be able to attribute to a management through GFE, that is better. This is the principle, and it’s probable this is the great advantage of the model that we are proposing.

But, I want to clarify that I would like to thank you for your attention, and obviously, I’m sorry for the excess of information. But it is very important, so that things are clear in the context of Eletrobras. We can do the Q&A..

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Very well. First question, Mr. [indiscernible].

Unidentified Analyst

Two questions. First, in regards to the distributing companies.

If we don’t have the privatization until the end of the year due to any reason, how will the company, since they didn’t renew the concessions, these concessions leave the company and they will not be adding liabilities, how would you deal with this issue if you cannot privatize, given that the companies have now renewed the concession? And the second question is regards to the net liabilities.

You have a lot of provisions, a lot of things and -- compulsory.

But, I wanted to know if you consider all that, how much of the net losses, net debt? And do you consider this value as -- how do you treat this in the company?.

Wilson Ferreira Jr.

In regards to the plan of the distributing companies. The first question and the second question, the balance of the company the budget or the losses of investment well, we’ve done already investments. And you can have in these specific cases, a reversion, giving a better perspective for the enterprise. I will give you an example.

We will have some structuring investments. You had the opportunity of un-hire the regulated and obviously, getting a risk position for the private with a higher risk. This will allow you not only drive a better performance, increase the rate but also, you have the two sides.

I agree that in this specific case, the compulsory loan, we have a legal issue, but its cost to the company an annual value. The average values yearly were about BRL500 million on average, maybe a bit above annually. This is not only in the provisions but we have this over the cash. We have BRL4 billion that I know of.

But the full amount that we have, based in the view of the lawyers, BRL14 billion are compulsory loans. If you account for their debt, we do an exercise through the long term. The financial result of that is that over the last years, we've doubled this in the judicial system. We will have to address an alternative for this.

And this is one of the items that we need to deal with. In regards to the distributing companies, obviously, we're working here. It's not that we don't have a Plan B. These companies are operated by Eletrobras. If it doesn't work, you'll get January 1, you just leave them alone? No.

You can remove the company from Eletrobras and the system is not automatic. I am saying that this is the good and bad side at the same time. What do I imagine in this privatization process? We have a basis for the payment of the FX, include cost and we have to do their work and we have here a set of loans.

This will be to facilitate and there is the third and it's the company itself. The concession will be followed by itself. The assets that are there, linked. You'll also need this.

So I understand that we have a converging and the converging rate, a solution that is the best way, best solution for the services, for the continuum of the service provision for the customers. But everyone is working so that we have the privatization until the end of the year. We are still within schedule for the end of the year.

Nonetheless, from my perspective, the sector model, the sectorial model, you can have the consequence, the focus of the company in an area that has a higher demand for investments.

In a perspective of growth much higher, these concessions are enormous opportunity for those that want to invest in this segment that can still become more robust as long as we can have a commercial risk that has been eliminated by the model. I think that all of the movements are toward valuing these assets.

And obviously, our obligation from the legal standpoint is to get -- this is the hypothesis, the legal hypothesis of what we have to do. I don't believe in it. I believe that we will work with the government so that we can have a second attempt in January or subsequently. And it's important to realize the importance of these concessions.

We are working to give the adequate deadlines so that everyone can take a look. Everyone is very well done. The options of the concessions are very positive. I think that the model reinforces this. And we understand that Eletrobras is very interested in signing the concession and the assets connected to that. So we have the deadline until the 31st.

And obviously, we will have to work with the government to maintain the perspective of service provision. And we have nine point -- basically, we have the liabilities of the works. We want to see the investments return for the company. Based on everything that I'm saying here, no, thank you. And about Angra 3.

These are an additional BRL 1 billion to finish or decommission. We have an update on that. The idea of getting another shareholder, this has been dealt along with CMP, the work of the company where we've done it. We did an auditing where there are two words to evaluate the amounts that are necessary for the conclusion. We did a recommendation.

And obviously, that this decision is necessary but it will allow us to have a partnership. In Eletrobras, we have the technical and we have a phase where we're trying to interact a revolution for this. We have -- this is very strategic and this is an important work, so we have to conclude it, Angra 3..

Operator

Next question. Carolina Carneiro, Santander..

Carolina Carneiro

My question is in regards to the issue about the new framework. What would be your view in regards to the impact of the [disquotazation] of the company? Where do you see the advantages, disadvantages? The second one.

Could you talk about the global reserve or reversion? They are discussing how much do you have of the stock of that resource? And within what you have, would it be enough to do the relevant payments of RBSE? What is your view?.

Wilson Ferreira Jr.

The impacts of the [disquotazation], there's advantages, disadvantages, advantages depending on the price that you establish has shown 2 numbers. We're talking about 130, BRL130 on average. You are offering to higher this amount for a value that you can manage, and you get a margin or you will have to do something smaller.

The numbers that we are mentioning are in the range of BRL150 to BRL100 megawatt hour. So our first advantage is to maintain our price. Now to be very transparent, the disquotazation process has to be seen in the context of privatization. This means that if you have an asset in O&M regime, there you have costs.

And now you exchange it through a regime, where I answer with the new price, and if you could do this based on the real cost. The companies have contingencies, corporate flows, corporate costs. So you have to see the advantage. You have to see the price and you have to see the cost that you can provide.

We, as sellers of this option, we have the interest of looking at the price in the amount of research, [retailable] and corporate to this quota. This is one of the evaluations. We have a lot of resources that are not amortized. The costs of operation are higher. And you might have to remain with a part of their cost.

The disadvantage of that, these efforts are very good. I am sure that there is an enormous interest in evaluation of these assets in a private way, and we see from the state side that they want this opportunity. And the advantages are positioned from now on that there will be no surprises.

And in case of Eletrobras, there’s only one option, which is to get the operation and the value of the cost established by the agency, if you have an alternative, then you have a GPL that it’s positive. It’s a better alternative than what we have.

We want to have an option that we want you to consider the benefits for the consumer and the benefit for Eletrobras in the country, we have to take -- we are paying attention to that. In regards to your second question, LGL has a set of values of the distributing companies themselves of Eletrobras.

You have financing there, not just distributing companies in the period that is over BRL3 billion. So once we do that proposal, they consider not only the stock but the incoming and a longer deadline, so this will be sufficient for the negotiation. Thank you..

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Next question, Liliana, HSBC..

Unidentified Analyst

I’m sorry if I’m being redundant, but I wanted to understand better, what are the impediments for a potential privatization of the assets of distribution? How is that negotiation ongoing about tariffs and basis of future assets?.

Wilson Ferreira Jr.

Tell me if I understood correctly.

What is the status of the privatization process of our distribution companies?.

Unidentified Analyst

Yes.

What will be the biggest impediment for that to take place?.

Wilson Ferreira Jr.

At this moment, we have a small delay. We should get the recognition of all the fees and this is an object of --. Four of the six distributing companies have a contract where of debt with Eletrobras that are being part of this fiscalization by the agency. The northern companies mainly, not the other ones.

The -- within the process of modeling, this is what we are considering. So in regards to the tariff, we have territory adjustments that are annual. We hadn't had an extraordinary review of tariff.

What is important? Why is the base as important? The proposal of the new contract for the concession, these concessions will have the opportunity of doing two reviews through a tariff cycle. You will have an intermediary moment. The basis of payout for Eletrobras, I still cannot disclose. We have the basis closed and we took it to a new yield.

We are waiting for the next step in about a room and we've done a good job. There is no impediment for the privatization. There is a closing closure. There is relevance in this contract, and we are discussing this with the agency.

And we understand that given the case, we will have to work with the minute, an agreement directly and the legal contingency. But I understand that our position over the values is very robust. So we've done that contextually with the agency and this process is ongoing in this month of August. We have a better room that is being prepared.

The issue of evaluation and modeling has been submitted. And there wouldn't be an issue, perhaps we have learned in the process and the normal course of the process, which is the easiest part in making the companies available for the interested parties.

Obviously, we've worked and there is a work in the agency and Eletrobras as well, with our controller companies and the difference is that we are accounting for in values, we're still optimistic in the sense of receiving what we, we have to prove what we’ve received to the agency in terms of amount, and the agency has to see the budget of OCDE, and we have to close it in a definite way.

Our position with Petrobras, we won a very important step for the process. .

Unidentified Analyst

And another question. In regards to the mine and energy ministry and the regulatory framework, the proposal, and the part that deals with Eletrobras in terms of potential for privatization or selling of the assets that have in the model that the tariff becomes a price and the government offers a third of the value for Eletrobras.

Do you think that the third is enough? And along these lines, within this government proposal, is there a possibility to sell the assets, but also the assets with the liabilities, so that they are free from the risk that Eletrobras won't sell only the assets and will remain with the liability so we have to sell both..

Wilson Ferreira Jr.

That's what I just mentioned. This modeling is not clear nowadays. And the way to this has been described, I don't think that this is what they mean, but we have to -- they are discounting the price and they're receiving the cost of the quota.

If we think that it costs more or less, so the quota costs this much, and you will do a [valuation] based on deadlines on support risk management, and then you will have the recapturing of the sell-in. This appears immediately. What we've made available on these slides are very relevant event, it's the issue of value.

If you consider Chesf is our main quota holder and one-third of our quota is our Chesf, then that's just me giving these costs. And it has a higher cost and we wouldn't be covered by that. The price is what we have mentioned but the cost is higher.

So that type of treatment to the higher costs with the eventual contingency, this is not clear in the modeling. And this gets us closer to a privatization model.

And if you privatize a power plant, there will be a part of the cost, the -- not only the vocalized costs connected to the power plant, but also the ones that are viewed to provide the services, corporate costs, financial costs, managerial costs. This is not clear and we hope that it will be clear.

I think that this was not something that they started to -- that they realized before. This has to be clarified. We have to get the context of what this privatization means. And the third, the part that would be given to Eletrobras, if that's reasonable or is this something that has to discuss and think about.

If one-third is higher than the situation that we have today, it's fairly reasonable. We can see the flow. It's zero or minimally positive. Now it's negative.

So we've -- are demonstrated in the beginning that if you have a perspective of [this quotization] and getting their cost per rata of this value is positive, if it's a third, then it will be worth it. So you need to rethink the calculations.

What is important to highlight is you have the possibility of doing this because you opened the possibility with a new regime that allows you to do so. Otherwise, you wouldn't have this possibility. So you only have the possibility of having 1/3, if you adopted the new regime, otherwise you'll have no alternative.

And it's basically like winning the lottery. Do you mind if you win the big prize with another 2 people? Or the possibility now it's 0? Winning, having a higher probability is better with 2 people. So somehow, there will be a cost and there will be a benefit to reduce the 1/3.

And somebody will have to be stimulated to consider the hypothesis, to win the other 1/3. I don't have the most scientific formulas to evaluate this. But I cannot say that 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 is not something fair. Once we had a change in the regime, it's very balanced.

But it's creating the conditions and it's changing the regime and the other, we are paying a little bit more but I want you to have a perspective from [OCD]. So this is very reasonable..

Operator

[Operator Instructions] We close at this time the Q&A session. This way we return the word to Wilson Ferreira Junior for the final considerations. Mr.

President?.

Wilson Ferreira Jr.

So thank you for all of you that are participating in this teleconference. Two points. We are in a restructuring process of Eletrobras, those retailers.

I understand that we are undergoing the first year of management, and I am very happy to share the first results in the effective reduction of the cost, effective reduction of our debt by [GFDE], the privatization of distributing companies. We are convinced that the work are undergoing. And can -- they will produce the results.

But we -- in addition to that, we have a bonus, Eletrobras are consuming -- we have this new perspective of a model. And we have a set of complexities. And this is important. We are replacing, repositioning the Brazilian electrical center -- sector in a very aligned way to what we see in the world and with the more advanced economies.

The digitalization of our system with GFDE and subcontracting RBSE are symptoms of effectuation in our effectiveness and this needs to change. I have to recognize the work that was done not only by how -- it is modern. I have mentioned awhile the issue of separation.

But it is important to mention that we have risk, and it doesn’t seem to be an element that has been adequately mentioned in the past. And the main agents, these risks cannot be managed without us taking into consideration digitalization.

So when you clearly state, what is the operation? Who will assume and will be responsible for the risk and this is in a more adequate agent, we have a perspective of sustainable risk. This is what we are mentioning. We will verify in the near future, an evolution that is beyond the one that we live, which is that distributor generation.

We have here, it is now reasonable to do so because a distributing company, there is no duplicate. It doesn’t make sense. So we have a rationalized cost that can be de-rationalized if we had the loss of these consumers or even if the consumer gets solar power. The companies that work against that, they don’t recognize the new model.

You will have a part of your structure, a part of your -- you can even gather energy from your solar roof. So, you have to look at this previously through data carrying. It seems to me that we’ve talked a long time to recognize that the wind metrics, the solar metrics. They can operate without causing a damage to our financial goals.

And there will be an eventual change of forces, where we have the consumer and the small generator. And this will be placed throughout the world. What I can affirm that the model presented, it considers each of these things.

And it has an advantage that is important, which is let’s get prices that -- and something that determines -- the more that the market forces these agents to work, they won't meet the requirements whether we press demand. And we will be able to answer quickly.

The second thing is that the subsidies have determined movements on the consumer side, have the subsidy to install a specific energy and will remove a consumer from the distributing. These distributing companies, these subsidies are responsible for the change in the market, and it's not reasonable to have both the subsidies.

They determine the choice of the consumer, from one side to the other. The truth is these sets of policies, the cost of price in the market, the responsibilities based on the main assets, the commercialization, you have the risks. You have to allow the best manager to manage the risk.

When you do this balance, you'll have the perspective of a model that is sustainable. I think that this is the main issue. And our mission is to try to deal with issues that have accumulated, judicialize and whatever the perspective is, we have to address them. Specifically, GSF is subcontracting and the issue of RBSE. These are the main ones.

I believe that we have here a proposal that will allow us to be in that 21st century. And in the context of our economy, we have to attract the investments, and we have to have liquidity and we have had this type of circumstances and we've done this very well.

And you have the compromise to perceive that in the government, in the case of Eletrobras, given the advantages that I've presented, we will have better results in the next couple of days. Well, thank you for your attention..

Operator

The teleconference of Eletrobras is closed. Thank you for your participation, and have a wonderful afternoon..

ALL TRANSCRIPTS
2024 Q-3
2023 Q-4 Q-3 Q-2 Q-1
2022 Q-4 Q-3 Q-2
2021 Q-4 Q-3 Q-2 Q-1
2020 Q-3 Q-2 Q-1
2019 Q-4 Q-3 Q-2 Q-1
2018 Q-3 Q-2
2017 Q-2