EVR - NYSE

Good morning, and welcome to the Evercore Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. Today's call is scheduled to last about one hour, including remarks by Evercore management and the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] I will now turn the call over to Katy Haber, Managing Director of Investor Relations and ESG at Evercore. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator. Good morning, and thank you for joining us today for Evercore's second quarter 2023 financial results conference call. I'm Katy Haber, Evercore's Head of Investor Relations and ESG. Joining me on the call today is John Weinberg, our Chairman and CEO; and Tim LaLonde, our CFO. After our prepared remarks, we will open up the call for questions. Earlier today, we issued a press release announcing Evercore's second quarter 2023 financial results. A discussion of our results today is complementary to the press release, which is available on our website at evercore.com. This conference call is being webcast live in the For Investors section of our website and an archive of it will be available for 30 days beginning approximately one hour after the conclusion of this conference call. During the course of this conference call, we may make a number of forward-looking statements. Any forward-looking statements that we make are subject to various risks and uncertainties and there are important factors that could cause actual outcomes to differ materially from those indicated in these statements. These factors include, but are not limited to, those discussed in Evercore's filings with the SEC, including our annual report on Form 10-K, quarterly reports on Form 10-Q and current reports on Form 8-K. I want to remind you that the company assumes no duty to update any forward-looking statements. In our presentation today, unless otherwise indicated, we will be discussing adjusted financial measures, which are non-GAAP measures that we believe are meaningful when evaluating the company's performance. For detailed disclosures on these measures and the GAAP reconciliations, you should refer to the financial data contained within our press release, which is posted on our website. We continue to believe it is important to evaluate Evercore's performance on an annual basis. As we have noted previously, our results for any particular quarter are influenced by the timing of transaction closings. I will now turn the call over to John.

Thank you, Katy, and good morning everyone. The current environment has presented one of the strongest hiring opportunities we've seen in the firm's history. We've capitalized on this by hiring exceptional senior talent who are attracted to our entrepreneurial platform, strengthening our ability to execute on our strategic initiatives. We're pleased to announce that so far in 2023 year-to-date, 11 new senior advisory managing directors, seven since our last earnings call have joined or have committed to Evercore. This new group of SMDs represents talent in areas such as TMT, both in the US and Europe, sponsor coverage, business services, real estate and capital advisory. These are the sectors we have identified as part of our long-term strategic plan. Once the market recovers, these new additions and those to come coupled with our recent promotes from earlier this year will drive significant productive capacity to service our clients. We believe, this positions Evercore for even greater success over the medium and long term. As we've experienced many times before to successfully operate in a cyclical business, we must position ourselves to recovery. We've shown repeatedly that our strength comes from investing through periods like we are operating in today, so we can emerge stronger. Our second quarter results reflect challenging market conditions, which we will discuss at greater length in this call. Although it is still early days, we've recently begun to see an uptick in client dialogue levels in conjunction with improving equity markets, stabilization of interest rates and the first signs of a recovery in the capital markets. Anecdotally, we're encouraged based on what we are hearing from our bankers and we're seeing some of that reflected in increased backlog, which include announced transactions as well as mandates. However, there is still uncertainty in the market, which has an impact on transaction timelines and closing. Additionally, there is a lag between announcements and closings, which impacts the timing of revenue recognition. Now, turning to the quarter. Evercore achieved $505 million in adjusted net revenues, $40 million in adjusted net income and $0.96 in adjusted earnings per share. Broadly, macro uncertainty and higher financing costs continue to weigh on markets, resulting in global announced M&A transactions greater than $100 million in the first half of 2023 down almost 40% on a dollar basis versus a year ago. In our global Advisory business, while M&A activity continues to be slow we started to see increased momentum in client activity. In the quarter, we worked on several important transactions, including Chevron on a $7.6 billion acquisition of PDC Energy and the $5.2 billion sale of Arconic to Apollo. Our Advisory team in Europe performed well given the challenging market conditions, but was down relative to the record quarter achieved a year ago. We continue to see significant progress in our European business as we strengthen both our sector coverage and capabilities. Our leading strategic defense and shareholder advisory business continues to see strong activity as activist campaigns remain at an elevated pace. In restructuring activity remains strong similar to what we've seen over the last couple of quarters driven by liability management as well as our market-leading debtor and creditor practices. Our private capital advisory and fundraising businesses, while experiencing some challenges remain active particularly with respect to continuation funds and private equity fundraising areas in which we are market leaders. Our Underwriting business had a better quarter as equity capital markets started to show signs of strengthening in May and June which were better months as measured by dollar value of issuance than any since November 2021. In the second quarter of the six follow-on offerings that were greater than $1 billion we were a book runner on three. Notably, we were the lead left book runner on GE Healthcare Technologies $2.2 billion deal which was the largest secondary offering in the quarter. We continue to focus on broadening our sector coverage. In our Equities business client interactions across our research and sales and trading platform remain robust with increasing opportunities to talk to clients. Lastly in Wealth Management AUM increased from prior quarter and year-end driven by market appreciation. Long-term client retention and performance remains strong. Tim will provide more details on this shortly. But as you know hiring of additional senior talent coupled with a challenging revenue backdrop put significant upward pressure on our compensation ratio yet we remain committed to a disciplined approach to managing our overall headcount expense base. While we continue to be focused on maintaining a durable balance sheet we remain committed to returning excess cash not invested in the business to our shareholders in the form of dividends and share repurchases over time. Looking forward we are preparing for the eventual recovery in the market and we are cautiously optimistic about the recent shift in sentiment. As we execute on our strategy we believe we are well-positioned for sustained growth and success in the medium and long term. With that let me now turn the call over to Tim to review our financial results and other financial matters.

Thank you, John. Our results this quarter and for this year are impacted by several factors. The first is the environment, which during the second quarter reflected a period of significant economic uncertainty and a challenging M&A and financing environment. This along with the deferral of several significant fees resulted in reduced revenues. The second is more forward-looking and that relates to the significant investment we have made in our business through the addition of a larger-than-normal number of very high-quality SMDs, the cost of which is partially reflected in this quarter and will continue through the remainder of the year and into next year. The cost of course that is absorbed this year likely will be prior to the realization of meaningful incremental revenue. The combination of lower revenues and increased investment in our future contribute to an elevated compensation ratio. The third is the impact of inflation and increased travel which have contributed to higher non-comp expenses. Now here are the results. For the second quarter of 2023 net revenues, net income and EPS on a GAAP basis were $499 million, $37 million and $0.95 per share, respectively. My comments from here on will focus on non-GAAP metrics, which we believe are useful when evaluating our results. Our standard GAAP reporting and a reconciliation of GAAP to adjusted results can be found in our press release which is on our website. Our second quarter adjusted net revenues of $505 million declined 21% versus the quarter a year ago. Second quarter adjusted operating income and adjusted net income of $63 million and $40 million decreased 59% and 63% respectively, versus the second quarter of 2022. Adjusted earnings per share of $0.96 decreased 61% versus the prior-year period. Our adjusted operating margin was 13% for the second quarter. Turning to the businesses. Second quarter adjusted advisory fees of $375 million declined 35% year-over-year compared to $576 million of advisory fees in last year's second quarter which was a record second quarter for us. In accordance with relevant accounting principles our revenue for the second quarter of 2023 includes $59 million from transactions which closed subsequent to June 30 or otherwise had contingent elements at June 30. To compare, we recognized $67 million in the second quarter of 2022 and $18 million in the first quarter of 2023 in accordance with the same accounting principles. Second quarter underwriting revenues of $38 million were up meaningfully compared to the second quarter of 2022 and the first quarter of this year, as ECM activity industry-wide increased significantly, particularly in May and June. Commissions and related revenue of $50 million in the second quarter was down 5% year-over-year reflecting weaker trading volumes as a result of lower volatility. Second quarter adjusted asset management and administration fees of $18 million decreased 1%, however year-over-year AUM increased approximately $1 billion primarily reflecting an increase from marketing s. Second quarter adjusted other revenue net was a gain of approximately $24 million of which approximately $12 million reflected the increase in value of our investment funds portfolio, which is used as a hedge for our DCCP commitments. In addition we continued to generate interest income on our cash balance due to higher short-term rates versus the prior year. Turning to expenses. The adjusted compensation ratio for the second quarter is 67%. The factors that impact our compensation ratio are first and foremost the revenue environment the amortization of prior-year awards and the level of senior hiring also impact the comp ratio. The market level for compensation primarily as it relates to our non-SMD bankers will also have an impact but we won't have further clarity on that until closer to year-end. We are excited about our execution to-date on our strategic partner hiring plan and in particular the exceptional quality of these candidates. There is an upfront investment costs although we expect these new SMDs to be significantly accretive to revenues overtime. Considering the time lag that exists between transaction initiation and closing which is when advisory revenue is typically recognized and that many of our new hires do not start until later this year when we will begin accruing compensation expense for them we expect our compensation ratio to remain elevated throughout the year. As we enter the back half of the year, we will adjust accordingly in either direction should our estimates of the underlying determinants of the compensation ratio, change. We are continuing to judiciously manage our overall headcount and we are using a disciplined approach to hire additional senior bankers in areas where we see a strategic opportunity. Shifting to non-compensation expenses. After holding our non-comp expenses essentially flat for the past four quarters in the second quarter our non-comp expenses increased to $103 million up 8.5% from a year ago. This is primarily driven by an increase in travel-related expenses due to a higher level of face-to-face meetings inflationary impacts on both travel and communication and information services and higher occupancy-related expenses for which the increase is driven by lease arrangements and costs related to relocating part of our corporate team to a different location. The rate of increase in non-comp expenses we have seen this year-to-date is similar to what we had seen in the prior year. We remain focused on continually monitoring our expenses and managing them tightly in this environment. Our adjusted tax rate for the quarter was 29.6% compared to 27% in the second quarter of last year. Turning to our balance sheet. As of June 30, our cash and investment securities totaled approximately $1.5 billion. We regularly review our cash position with respect to the current business environment and we manage it prudently to ensure we have significant liquidity to implement our strategy including hiring plans to capitalize on opportunities and to assure all our stakeholders that we have financial stability. Year-to-date, we have returned a total of $419 million to shareholders through dividends and repurchases of 2.7 million shares at an average price of $128.01. We have fully offset the dilution from the 2.4 million RSU grants that were issued in the first quarter. And our quarterly weighted average share count has declined by nearly 1.1 million shares compared to last quarter. Our second quarter adjusted diluted share count decreased by more than 1.6 million shares to 42.1 million from 43.8 million a year ago. Looking forward, return of capital will be influenced by the operating environment and our business needs. We have strong capital position and have returned about one-third of our market cap in the form of dividends and share repurchases over the past 2.5 years. As we have stated consistently, we remain committed to building our business through all phases of the economic cycle. History has shown that our firm emerges stronger from challenging environments than when we entered. We are seeing early signs of improved capital markets and more broadly, an increased level of discussions with our clients, reflected in increased backlogs. With our new SMD additions and the SMDs we have promoted internally, which have significantly expanded our footprint, we believe we are better positioned than at any point in our history. With that, we will now open the line for questions.

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Steven Chubak with Wolfe Research. Please go ahead.

Hey, good morning.

Good morning.

So, I was hoping to start off just with a question on Equity Capital Markets before getting back in the queue. Just prior to the pandemic, $25 million per quarter was considered a pretty strong quarterly result for that business. You just hit $40 million in a quarter, where the overall industry fee pool is still tracking below 2019 baseline or when people look at it as a more normalized proxy. I was hoping you could just speak to what contributed to the share gains in the quarter. And where do you think this business runs as we enter a more normalized operating backdrop?

We continue to build our Equity Capital Markets business and we are gaining momentum. As you probably know, our league tables have continued to pick up. And right now we're at number 11. And our objective is to be in the top 10. What is happening in our Equity Capital Markets business is we really have more and more connectivity with clients and we've communicated more clearly our capabilities. And as a result, our positions in financings are actually improving. And we're having just much more success in the pitches that we're making. I think we have a lot to offer in a lot of these capital markets transactions and I think clients are embracing that. So what we're seeing is a higher expectation of what we can do. And I think our bankers are out marketing the product quite effectively. It's hard to predict how far up it goes in terms of our revenue potential. I think we're a far cry from where we think we are going to end up. We think that the momentum is very good.

Yes. That's -- I would agree with that John. And what I might add is two things. One, certainly what we've seen throughout most of 2022 and the first half of 2023, was a relatively depressed market. So number one we expect the market to -- when it does return to be at somewhat meaningfully higher levels than what we've seen over the last five or six quarters. Second point I would make is that because of the conditions in the equity issuance market over these last five or six quarters, there are a lot of earlier-stage companies that have been sitting on the sidelines that are looking for capital to implement their strategic plans and grow the businesses. And we have a hope and expectation that when the markets return to more normal levels and issuance levels are more normal, that we'll see a number of these companies coming to market.

I'd just add one more thing, which is that one of the parts of our strategy is that we are expanding our reach with respect to different sectors and we are building out our Equity Capital Markets group. And so I think you will see over time a diversification of where we're getting our revenues and equity. And also I think we're going to basically be reaching more clients.

That’s great color. Thanks John and Tim for taking my questions.

Thank you. We'll take our next question from Ryan Kenny with Morgan Stanley.

Hi, John and Tim. Good morning.

Good morning.

Wanted to follow-up on the comments around improved client conversations on the M&A side and an increased backlog. Do you have any metrics you could share on how much the backlog has increased? And is there any difference there on larger deals versus the smaller or more midsized deals?

We really can't give you any metrics on that. I would just say that if our backlog is strengthening and the activity levels inside the firm right now are running very high. Comparing the activity levels to the beginning of this year its market and really it's diverse. It's pretty much almost every single sector and every single product we're seeing real activity pick up. So, from our perspective, it looks like it's -- there's a real build. And I think it really -- it's really across the board. In terms of size of deals, we are definitely having conversations with large deals. I'd say a big part of our business as you know is middle market and those activities are actually quite robust right now. I think there is no question that the activity in terms of companies that are looking for opportunities to sell is growing and we have a significant number of transactions which are on the sell side that we are in the process of working with. I think over time what you'll see is a balance although one of the things I think we'll all be watching over time is the impact of antitrust on larger deals, which will certainly be more impacted than middle market deals.

Yes. And what I would add to that is -- and I know John touched at some length in his remarks about the partner hiring but we, of course, have announced 11 year-to-date we did seven last year, that's 18. We also promoted 24 partners internally over the last two years. That's 42 partners that we didn't have at the beginning of 2022 that will be here and up and working hard at the beginning of 2024. And we're hopeful that that significantly broadens and deepens our coverage and add some firepower to our capacity.

Great. Thank you.

Thank you. We'll take our next question from Brennan Hawken with UBS.

Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. So, the year-to-date comp ratios ticked up to 65%. I know Tim in your prepared remarks you talked about the uncertainty around that number which is certainly clear. But if you could just add a little color, a handful of questions on the comp ratio. So, is it accurate to say that this reflects -- the year-to-date reflects your best expectations for the year? And I know I asked this last quarter, but we heard a different answer from a competitor of yours yesterday. So I just want to confirm that that outlook would include just what you know today and not your expectations of any hires in the back half of the year. Thank you.

Yes. Sure. And thanks for the question, Brennan. And so, as you correctly stated, the first half comp ratio is 65.1% and we do not accrue for new hires until they start. And so since more than half of our new hires this year are expected to start in the latter half of this year, the first half comp ratio would not reflect their compensation. What that would imply is that, you would expect to see some drift upward from the 65.1% number. What you notice is in the second quarter, we booked 67% which helped get us bring our initial first quarter comp ratio of 63.5% up to the 65.1% area, which again, would be an accrual number that does not reflect the people who have not shown up. When those new people do arrive and they hit the books though, there's uncertainty around what the final comp number would be, I would expect it to be relatively similar to what you saw booked in the second quarter.

Thank you for that color, Tim. I appreciate it.

Sure

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from Devin Ryan with JMP Securities.

Hey good morning. How are you guys?

Great. Thank you.

Good. Just want to follow up on recruiting and just the market that we're in right now. So a lot of SMDs that are joining obviously a bit more than normal. And so, I guess two things. One, do you expect just based on conversations that number could grow this year just based on kind of where we sit? And then, what does that window look like here? If the market is improving, is that window maybe starting to shut and so you want to push harder, or do you see this window remaining open into next year or even beyond? Just love to get a sense of kind of the recruiting environment and then how long do you think it could remain as active as we've already seen year-to-date here. Thank you.

Sure. Thanks for the question. We are in the process of continuing to talk to talent that is available to us. As you indicated, it's a unique time. And we have been able to hire some really unique people and we're really excited about it. It's across the firm. The 11 that we're talking about is in our Advisory businesses, but we are -- we have several more that are not Advisory related to have come on. And we're really excited about the prospects of all those people. In terms of what we're looking at for the balance of the year, we continue to be in dialogue with some very talented people. Those conversations as you know, may or may not crystallize into something where people come over. But we are very optimistic about our prospects with respect to finding good people. In terms of the window, we don't see it closing. It's certainly been -- the opportunity to hire strong people is somewhat market-related, but we also think, it is people really looking at the model and wanting to come over and work with us. I know others in the business are feeling the same thing. And so it certainly may not be unique to us. But we've really felt like it's been a very positive tone. We will continue to hire strong people, as they are available to us. As we've always said, we're really looking for A-level talent A and A+ and we really have been really pleased with what the people who are very willing and excited about joining us and we're going to continue to have those conversations. I honestly don't see us stopping. I don't know whether we will get to the same level of hiring that we have this year -- in preceding years. But clearly, we will always be looking to talk to great talent. As Tim also said, we have 24 internal promotes over the last two years. We're very focused on promoting from within and we have 40-plus partners all ramping at this point. And so I think that's going to be a really big part of what our productive capacity is and will drive revenue potential and we're going to continue with that. I think -- but as I said in terms of summarizing the market continues to be quite fertile and we're going to continue to stay in it this year.

Yes. And if I can add one more point to the internal promote comment, it's now the case at about 43% of our partners internally are -- have been promoted from within number one. And number two, they've also been very successful. And that transition was one that was absolutely key to our organization because that's how we build sustaining value and earn high ROIs going forward. And we're really pleased with that evolution in our company.

Got it. Thank you.

Thank you. Our next question comes from James Yaro with Goldman Sachs.

Good morning, John and Tim, and thanks for taking my questions. Maybe we could just turn to M&A again. Just a bigger picture and then I'll dig down a little bit. On the bigger-picture question what do you think breaks the M&A logjam and brings companies and sponsors back to transaction? What are we missing today? And when do you think that could occur in your best estimate? And then if we just dig down given the continued fundraising weakness among sponsors it'd be just helpful to get your perspective on the debate in terms of whether strategics and sponsors return to the M&A market first and whether you think sponsors could represent a structurally lower level of M&A at least for the medium term that we have seen in recent years?

In terms of the -- what breaks this and get things going again I think we've always said that what really is required is clarity for the macro outlook relative stability of interest rates and underpinning to the market and really an improving financial markets where there's more accessible -- accessibility for funds. Frankly, we do see there's a warming up of the market. ECM activity is beginning to show some signs of life. The stock market has some stability. Interest rates at least the view of interest rates is that they are stabilizing and the Fed's actions have been effective. And then leveraged finance is beginning to vary -- in the very beginning -- beginning to ease. So as a result we think there is activity. Internally at our shop, I think, we said this we're seeing a lot of activity. And the real question is exactly what is it going to take? And I think it really is and comes down to clarity and stability which is beginning to happen. And so as we look forward it's really difficult to predict exactly when but we think all the elements are in place for that recovery and it's just now a matter of time. In terms of the financial sponsors frankly they've $3.7 trillion of dry powder. They are in business to actually do deals. And I think that they're very much focused on when can they get back in the market. What we've seen in terms of our dialogue is that they are all very much ready to go and they're just looking for the signal. Clearly, they are impacted by accessibility and funding as well as interest rates. But it doesn't appear to us in the conversations that we're having that any of the sponsors feel like they can't do business right now. So I think in many respects when the market seems to start to be moving again I think you'll see sponsors moving. I don't think that they're going to be holding back because I don't think really it's going to be in their best interest to do that.

Okay. Thanks a lot.

Thank you. We'll take our next question from Brennan Hawken with UBS.

Thanks for taking my follow-up. I just wanted to actually drill down a little bit on that last point about activity. We hear a lot about green shoots. We hear a lot about conversations. But what do you think the lag is going to be until these green shoots in sort of early indications actually turn into a meaningful up-tick in activity? Because that seems to be sort of where the rubber hits the road here and we started to see green shoots in the beginning of the year and then some of the trouble in March set us back and now we're starting to see it again. I think what investors are most struggling with is we just dealing with another head bake here, or is there really the true conviction that's going to lead these to start leading to announcements? And when does that happen? Do you have any sense of that? I know it's a tough question.

Yeah. Hi. Brennan this is Tim. Sure. We do have some sense. Look, the -- when we talk about activity levels I just want to segregate those into a few different categories. It's absolutely the case that the phones are ringing again and that people are coming back to the tables. But you -- one just needs to bear in mind that, once that step happens it then takes it might take a number of months to do the analysis hold the Board meetings have negotiating sessions and get a deal announced. And then, once that deal is announced it then takes another period of time for those transactions to close. And so two comments I would make is, once these transaction activity or the discussion activity picking up, that's not something that typically we're going to see an increase in revenues from that in one quarter kind of thing. That takes a little while. And then, on the second step the actual closings, I think from the investor and analyst community when you see announcements occurring, a pickup in those announcements then you'll of course see the following pickup in revenues coming from that. And that's going to be probably a good early indicator for the research community and the investors. Now on the positive side is the equity market is something where you do see a much shorter time frame. And that's something where as you can see from this quarter's results we've already seen some pickup.

In addition for us, as a firm, our restructuring business is very busy. And that is really much more immediate in terms of the way revenues accrue. In addition I think our activism defense business is a fee-generating business, which I think has an acceleration of fees also. So we have streams coming in but I think that your question which really is, what kind of a lag will there be is relevant because it -- there's a lag that we can see in terms of the activity that we're feeling inside leading to announcements and then once there are announcements then when that revenue actually hits there's clearly going to be some time between each of those.

Okay. But sort of -- what I was trying to get at is right now and what you're seeing in the dialogue, green shoots are there that's clear, but green shoots are also somewhat fragile. So what I'm trying to get at is, -- are you -- do you feel like right now the green shoots are more durable and sort of strengthening, or are we still at a period where there's a lot of fragility and lack of conviction and therefore a setback like we saw in March, could definitely cause it all to go on hold again?

I'll give you my judgment which is, the activity that we're seeing right now and the conversations we're having right now are much more foundational than the ones we saw in January which I felt were more tentative. Clearly in January and February what we saw is activity levels were building. But in many respects it was bankers' kind of pushing activity forward. Now I really feel like, its market driven that there is real foundational reason for why these things are happening. And I feel much more comfortable that these are really moving forward.

Okay. Thanks guys for the patience with the multiple questions.

Sure.

Thank you. We'll take our next question from Devin Ryan with JMP Securities.

Yes. Thanks. Yes, I just wanted to follow up on some of my commentary on restructuring. Obviously we've been tracking this acceleration as well and Evercore has been very active in that. And so, I just want to talk a little bit about how much of that maybe acceleration of mandates has already been impacting revenue? And then what that trajectory and timing looks like? Is this back-end weighted 2023 story in terms of revenue recognition? Is there a big ramp into 2024 just based on what's already in the system? And then how long do you guys see this lasting especially if the M&A market does start to get some length here? So, just trying to think about that business which has been very healthy but maybe the revenues haven't come through yet? Thanks.

Sure. And that's right, that's a good question, which is -- so what we've seen year-to-date is restructuring. Restructuring by the way for us last year was a pretty significant business. And then we've seen some increase in that business activity this year. It hasn't been as we've said on previous calls, the kind of peak activity levels one would have seen during the early days of the pandemic or during the great financial crisis but it's been more kind of, what I would call, liability management oriented than a kind of large flurry of Chapter 11 cases. And so -- but that liability management including renegotiation of existing distressed credits has been good. It's been rising. There is a maturity wall that's coming in kind of the 2024-2025 timeframe, and the extent to which that creates additional restructuring business will to some extent be a function of to what extent the leveraged finance markets are open during that period where it needs to be refinanced, and that's kind of a wait and see. And then also as you point out, historically, there's been some inverse correlation between M&A activity and restructuring activity for obvious reasons. Yet, it's possible that in this current environment what you could see is a situation where you have both a strong restructuring market and an improving M&A market.

Yes. I would say that the backlog in our restructuring business continues to build. And I also would say that given the diversity of our businesses, which is liability management which is very much on advisory basis as well as the creditor and debtor of businesses, really those coupled together I think mean that -- I think it will be a less cyclical business for us over the medium-term. And really when you look at what's happening with interest rates rising and the high -- the low credit businesses facing what Tim said was the maturity wall, I think you're going to see a lot of activity over the next two, three years. So I think that the merger market has easily begin to improve, as we've all said, and at the same time our restructuring business could get even busier at the same time.

Yes. Perfect. Thank you.

Thank you. We'll take our next question from Ryan Kenny with Morgan Stanley.

Hi. I just wanted to dig in on the non-comp side. I heard the comments in the prepared remarks that there was a pickup in travel and lease expenses, and we also saw professional fees pick up. So, how sticky is that increase in non-comp? And should we think about the $103 million non-comp dollars as the right base going forward?

Right. And so look really that -- what you saw in the increase in the non-comp numbers was a combination of impact from three different areas and one of them was travel. Now, the increase in travel is a good thing, as we've said before which is that we want our clients getting out -- or pardon me our partners getting out and having face-to-face meetings with clients. If you compare where our travel is now to where it was pre-pandemic, we're at in terms of number of trips about 75% of pre-pandemic levels, if you were to adjust that for the increase in head count from 2019 that would drop down to about 60% per person. And so, we expect that to at least hold steady, if not have a little bit of upward pressure. We also of course experienced a little bit of inflation on travel costs. The second area was communication and information services and that as we all know and we've read endlessly we're in the data age and that's critical to the services we provide to our clients. And there's been a little bit of escalation in the cost of that data as well as a little bit of expansion in the number of people using it. And then thirdly, in occupancy, and I had mentioned this in our last call, we're relocating a portion of our corporate staff to another building, while we're in the process of doing construction work on the new lease side, we're having to pay double rent. So that portion will come down a little bit. If you look at our non-comp expense and this is -- will just help you think about this a little bit our non-comp expense on a per head basis it's actually been remarkably flat for really several straight years and there's been a slight uptick. That slight uptick was due to the trend -- primarily to the travel. And so, where we are today on a per head basis is just slightly above, again due to increased travel to where we were during the pandemic, but still a little bit below where we were prior to the pandemic. And so that's kind of a long way of saying, it feels to me like we're about where I would expect us to be and where we should be with some minor gives and takes that will probably balance out.

Got it. That's helpful. Thanks.